My conversation with an Islam student

This is a compilation of several days conversation with an Islam student (he said that, I am not checked). According to Facebook, his name is Rida Newman and he is from Algeria. This conversation helps me to understand some things about wisdom, religions and people, so I want to share with you. Hope this will be good for you too.

I "populate" it with my thoughts, questions and descriptions in [] brackets, so you can understand my point better. Some questions I didn't ask, some I add later... With ellipsis at free row I show "time shift", where I think is important. Also in {} brackets I put "address" to a Quran text. So {10:100} means "sura (chapter) 10, verse 100". In the talk we use term "miracle" instead "verse".

Rida Newman: Salut
Krum Cheshmedjiev: Hello, how can I help you?
RN: I want to speak with you for a minute.
KC: Welcome.
RN: thanks
RN: What is your name, sir?
KC: Krum :-)
RN: Nice name
KC: Thanks. How can I help you?
RN: I don't want you to help me.
RN: I just want to speak with you.
RN: Because I speak Arabic.
KC: I would like to know Arabic...
RN: But I want to speak English.
RN: Because I like it.
KC: I am Bulgarian, I know Bulgarian, Russian, English and some German... And very little of Esperanto. I am not good in human languages...
RN: wwow
RN: How old are you?
KC: 45
KC: Now I read a book about Persian miniatures - tiny pictures in old books. Very beauty!
RN: ooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
RN: good
RN: رائع
RN: Wonderful
KC: :-) I agree.
RN: رائع is "wonderful" in Arabic
KC: What book you read recently?
RN: I read book El Qaradawi.
KC: First time listen... But this is because I know names of old books, since I read about them now...
KC: The "El Qaradawi" is a name of book or author?
RN: Qaradawi is a writer, talks about the Islamic religion.
KC: Thanks, I see in Wikipedia...
KC: I read Quran before, in Bilgarian. Nice book, full with wisdom.
KC: Also I look for Torah, Jewish "equivalent" of Quran and Bible, but still can not find in language I can read...
RN: What is it your religion?
KC: I have no religion. I respect any, but have none.
KC: I think there is no "best" religion, and can not be. "Religion" is human "creature", "wisdom" is The Lord's creature, I value it.
RN: You got to know the Islamic religion.
KC: I learn Islam, as well as Christianity, Judaism and few others. Actually, when I can compare them, I learn even more than a religion can teach me.
RN: Do you believe in Prophet Muhammad?
KC: Do you believe in Teacher Peter Dunov? Such people are not with us to "believe" in them, but to learn from them...
RN: Did you know that Islam is the true religion in life?
KC: As addition to my words about "best religion": there is no "worst" religion too. There is the "utility" of religion, what can be good or bad.
RN: Since you read the Quran, do you know what it says when talking?
KC: A knife can be "sword" to kill or "scalpel" to cure. The human hand, which holds it, make it "good" scalpel or "bad" sword...
KC: My translation of Quran words: The win is with the steady one. [Real text: Allah is with those who are patient.{2:153}]
RN: Of no religion has continued to do
KC: Can you point me to the exact row? Would like to read it again...
RN: I don't understand what do you mean?
KC: Where in the Quran, in which sura, in which miracle of that sura, is the cite about religion, what you mentioned?
KC: The text I show you ("The win is with the steady one") stay at sura 2, miracle 153.
KC: Note that this cite I translate from Bulgarian to English to show you, may not be correct, sorry...
RN: God is the one who sent the Quran. And the Quran is the word of God.
KC: I agree with your words. But humans understand God's words differently, that He wants, and use them even different...
RN: What do you work?
KC: I am a "ronin" :-)
KC: In Japanese means "samurai with no master". A freelancer.
KC: I am programmer, mostly do websites.
RN: Nice job.
KC: I like it...
KC: What do you work?
RN: I am student in university.
RN: Give me your site, please.
KC: Isn't it in the my FB account?
KC: http://krumch.com
RN: thanks ["likes" my site in FB]
RN: What is your site about?
KC: How did you like it, without to understand what is the site about? :-)
RN: Yes, I want to understand what is it about. [He saw the home page only - I have logs of my visitors...]
KC: That is "my shadow" in the WEB...
KC: About me.
KC: About my works, my products...
KC: My articles...
RN: aa
RN: good
RN: Can you tell. Bear witness that there is no god but Allah and I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.
KC: Sorry to be contra, but I think that Allah, Brahman, Manitu, Zeus, Hermes, Ra, Krishna, Tangra, Thor, Odin, Perun, Jupiter etc, all are names, which different human cultures use for same thing: the power, which rules the Universe we know. So your condition if useless for me. I can agree, that Muhammad is Messenger of Allah. But he is not alone, as Budha, Pitagoreus, Peter Danuv (Beinsa Duno) and many others, are Messengers and Teachers too.
KC: And Jesus Christ is one of the teachers as well, and this is shown in the Quran.
RN: Yes I know.
RN: But I wish to know what Islam says.
RN: Not what I said so.
KC: You know that better than me...
KC: There is lot of religions, which pretend to be "the best, most good and most right" one, and Islam and Christianity are such too.
RN: I know the Christian religion. But God commanded us to follow the other, the religion of Mohammed.
KC: Can not agree completely with your words. Was Mohammed Islamic ayatollah? Was Jesus a Christian monk? They just follow the God/Allah/Tangra/Brahman...(and any other name here). They follow "the wisdom", not "the religion", and teach us to "wisdom", not to the "religion".
KC: Would you agree?
RN: In the era of Mohammed said one of his friends
We have seen Muhammad asked him crying his friends Why are you crying, O Messenger of God
Said. I cried on [few Arabic letters here, with broken coding, so I delete them. This is the only edition I did to this reply, as I can't understand it.]
They said we loved ones
Said. You are not my friends. Vahbabi my father Iaton the after me Baminon shall me but did not see me
KC: Sorry, can not understand your words... Is this a cite?
RN: Because God commanded us to believe in all the prophets, but we must believe Prophet Mohammed and to believe...
KC: Must we believe to anyone prophets? Must we believe with closed eyes? If somebody (not Allah) puts some words in the mouth of Mohammed, is this enough to believe? And there can be self-proclaimed prophets, must we believe them too?
KC: Cite from Panchatantra: The one who listens to the wisdom and thinks about everything is the one who win piece, fortune and glory. [See {10:100}. Also there is lot of places in Quran where stay phrase "Surely in this there are signs for a people who reflect.".]
RN: No, never have the Prophet Muhammad came the miracle of the Quran.
KC: Please tell me your last sentence with other words. Sorry, but somehow I can not understand again.
RN: This is not only a book, could not compose any book.
KC: I agree, that Quran is a special book. But no one book can contain "the complete true". We (humans) can not understand it. We must compile it from several sources - books, prophets, teachers. And must think for everything.[See {10:100}]
KC: If you cite Quran, please give me "the address" of the cite, so I can read it in Bulgarian.
RN: Quran is not in all languages. Arabic only.
KC: I read it on Bulgarian, and saw translations in English too...
KC: As "address" I mean to give me the sura and miracle, where I can find the cite.
KC: Sorry, but I am not Islam student and I need to read the exactly text in Bulgarian to be possible to understand you...
RN: [A long cite, with Arabic words inside English text. I never understand it, so delete it here. Should be {17:6}, as I understand later, after lot more questions, I don't show all of them in this article...]
RN: I've quoted to you in order to recognize the miracle of the Quran.
KC: Thanks a lot. Which sura is this?
RN: But there are words in Arabic will not understand.
KC: The first sura is "Opening", second is "The caw"... Which is the number of the sura, where this miracle stay?
RN: Yes, the first sura is "The light".
KC: 3. Irman's family
KC: 4. Womens
RN: The second is "The cow". Largest sura in the Quran.
KC: I can translate the names wrong...
RN: Arabic is so.الفاتحة .البقرة.
KC: http://www.quranexplorer.com/
KC: There is a list with suras (chapters).
KC: At bottom of the page.
KC: Which one is the cite from?
KC: Saw the list?
KC: If I know the sura and the miracle numbers, I can find the text in my book in Bulgarian.
...
RN: As I want to tell you. When we spoke last time I said that Albozh religion. Understand that worship idols can not hear, nor hungry mouths.
RN: And that God created us to worship Him. A creator of the Universe and the creator of everything.
KC: I can not remember, but totally agree with your words. Hungry mind can not think well. Idols are human made, they are nothing. Like to speak to the wall, we say here.
KC: With one exception: God wants to worship Him, just to be possible to understand the truth. Truth is need to be possible to do our jobs (which He gave us) well.
RN: As I tell you, those who are worshiped idols of their manufacture and are made of stone[, are losers].
KC: Note, that a book can be an idol too...
RN: Yes, you can say that, but words are not an idol.
RN: Because God sent down the Quran and no one can write like him. [The 10th-century Muslim scholar from Baghdad, Ibn Mujāhid, is famous for establishing seven acceptable textual readings of the Quran (cite from Wikipedia). So there is at least 7 versions of Quran in Arabic only, just within 5 centuries?]
KC: Words - not, they are tools. Pages with texts are like photographic pictures. They are not the truth, they just show us the truth.
KC: God also sent Vedas, and Scrizhals, and other texts.[Did you study them? Did you read them? At least, did you know about them? Description: "Scrizhals" is Bulgarian term for the stone plates what Mouses bring from the mountain, the "Ten Commandments". No such term in English, but Rida didn't ask me what it means...]
KC: But a book can be an idol. So must not rely on one book only.
RN: But for the transfer of the sun shines from the east. Can the gods of those doing the opposite?
KC: There is no "others" gods.
KC: Other people name Him with other names, but He is same.
KC: Well, this is my understanding...
RN: But how to be the same as they worshiped stones - idols?
KC: Who is "they"? Christians? Budists?
RN: I did not understand what it means.
KC: Who is the people you say they worshiped idols?
KC: Please "show me" them somehow, by religion, or by other sign...
RN: There is no sign. The Quran is a miracle that God revealed to the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.
RN: I wish I know the true meaning of the Quran...
KC: So, if you can not find "them", unless in a book, maybe "they" don't exists? And maybe is not a good to rely on one book only?
RN: Yes. Single book, but inside there is a lot things.
KC: Sure, a lot. But there is two things:
RN: Inside, there are signs, puzzled scientists Debt [Sorry, can not understand this reply, even after thinking, so I need to ignore...]
KC: I see no reason to lock myself in a single book (or religion, or human being, or taste, or anything else). That's first.
KC: Second: if I stay only "inside", there is no warranty that somebody human can create "that" for me, to show me "some" truth. As a trap... I must look around, to see the truth, which God wants me to know.
RN: Only know that in today's afterlife will Ahaspena God for everything we've done. And now I tell you or I advise you to follow Islam is good for you. [I can not find meaning of word "Ahaspena", maybe this is a transliteration of an Arabic word?]
KC: I agree, that all we will be asked for the things we did.
KC: And I am never say, that I dislike Islam. Nope, this is a great way to understand the truth.
KC: But what if it is not enough to me? As any picture is not enough to show you the original?
KC: Let say, you go outside and do a picture for me to show me your street. Or your home. I can see only the things what are on the picture. Can not see same street behind you, only at front of you. Or your home at other angle.
KC: You will need to turn back and to do second picture to show me the street "behind you". So not need to rely on one picture. No way, one picture is not enough...
KC: One book is not enough, one religion is not enough. One life is not enough...
KC: Well, just my understanding. And if asked, I will say "I explain it to Rida" :-) [If Allah asks you "Why you did not think about these words?", what will you answer?]
RN: But in one [book - the Quran -] you can see all the pictures.
[Well, if the Quran is enough, why you read El Qaradawi? Is there any "album book", what can contain all possible pictures? And also there exists at least 7, slightly but different, versions of Quran. This means "7 different albums", which one is "right"? Is other 6 versions "wrong"? So I think "a book with pictures" is still "single, a bit wider picture".]
KC: In one picture of you I can see all the street _you_ shot. If someone do a picture of same street, same homes etc, it will be slightly different. This allows me to think about differences and to understand much more. By two pictures I can say at which side (east, west...) you point the camera. Can see shadows, can calculate length of the street... and much, much more.
KC: And again, this is not _all_the_street_ at all, just the piece, what I see on both pictures...
RN: It is important that God is a witness to the fact that I embrace Islam.
KC: Agree, as important as explanation of my understanding. Who else, if no God (Allah, Tangra, Brahman,...) move my fingers to type it...
KC: Thanks about conversation, it was pleasure for me, and also adds some piece of wisdom.
RN: ok bye
KC: Bye
...
KC: Sorry to bother you again. Would you allow me to publish our talk today to my site?
RN: Yes, no problem.
KC: Thanks. Can I name it "My conversation with an Islam student"?
RN: Yes, I agree with this name.
KC: Thanks. Would you like to hide your name?
RN: Not need to hide.
KC: OK. Can I do slight editing - punctuations, typos etc? Just to be readable better in English.
RN: okey
KC: Thanks. Next few days I will publish and will ask you to read and confirm, that I do it well. [I loose contact at the next day - his 2 FB accounts I know was locked and his messages was marked as "bad or spam". Later his second account was active and we connect again. Then locked too. Then, ~20 days later, he have 3-th (only?) account with name "Rida Babi" with school "Havard university, Boston, Massachusetts" and home "Paris, Franse"... Never believe to Facebook.]
RN: yes of course
KC: Thanks again and have a good day :-)
RN: Thanks, you too :D

I had before similar talks with Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian preachers and Krishna followers, with same misunderstanding as result. So I think there is 3 "uses" of a religion (ordered by decreasing number of involved people): as product to consume, as busyness to build product, and as knowledge to gain wisdom. Well, if the last one is most deficit one, it should be most valuable, right? :-)

And what about others? Well, see {10:100}...

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One Response to My conversation with an Islam student

  1. chink chink says:

    Appreciate your posting this. Thank you much

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